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August 4, 2005
LISTEN [44k, RA]

Religious extremism drives some of the most intractable conflicts around the world. Our guest knows this shadow side of the Christian faith in his personal history. We'll speak about what goes wrong when religion turns violent, and why, he believes, the cure for religious zealotry is not less religion but more religion — or rather stronger and more intelligent practices of faith.

Program Details
+ Particulars
+ Resources
+ Books + Music
+ Reflections
+ Credits

Image Caption
Serb children present the three-fingered salute to soldiers riding tanks upon their return from shelling the village of Svrhe near Klina.
(Photo: Thomas Sjørup)
Web-Exclusive Content
Q&A with Volf (16:08)
Listen to the post-interview question-and-answer session at the National Cathedral in Washington D.C. in which Professor Volf provides some profound responses to difficult questions.

"Christianity and Violence" [PDF, 67kb]
Read an essay by Volf addressing the aftermath of 9/11 and how it changed many people's relation to religion.

Passage from the Book of Romans
Read a copy of the biblical passage from Romans 12: 9–21, which Volf recited to close the show.
Voice on the Radio
Miroslav Volf Miroslav Volf
Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Systematic Theology at Yale Divinity School and director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture.

Program Particulars
*Times indicated refer to web version of audio

(02:08–03:24) Music
"The Multiples of One" from Awakening, performed by Joseph Curiale

(02:20) History of Religion and Ethnic Tensions in Balkans
The ethnic tensions between Croats and Serbs (Serbia is Christian Orthodox) experienced by Volf resulted in a civil war after the break-up of Communist Yugoslavia. Read more about the Yugoslav civil war, as part of a lecture series, or view accessible maps of the region at the Institute for War & Peace Reporting.

(02:52) Volf's Book Mentioned by Krista
Miroslav Volf's book, Exclusion & Embrace: A Theological Exploration of Identity, Otherness, and Reconciliation, won the 2002 Louisville Grawemeyer Award in Religion.

(03:32) Tradition of Pentecostalism
Volf states that he grew up as the son of a Pentecostal minister. In 2003, Speaking of Faith produced the program "Pentecostalism in America", which explores the origin and diversity of the traditions in the United States and Canada.

(07:35) Thin Versus Thick Religion
In his discussion with Krista, Volf describes his idea of thin and thick religion. Read a more complete version of this discussion in his paper "Christianity and Violence."

(08:18) Passage from a Bishop in Rwanda
When discussing the meaning of thin religion, Krista recites from Miroslav Volf's article, "The Social Meaning of Reconciliation." The following paragraphs of the article, published in the April 2000 issue of Interpretation, provide a fuller reading:

A Roman Catholic bishop from Rwanda observed that "the best catechists, those who filled our churches on Sundays, were the first to go out with machetes in their hands." Such was typical of most Rwandan churches during those fateful months of 1994 in which, according to conservative estimates, eight hundred thousand people were killed in only a hundred days (on the average, five and a half lives terminated every minute!). "There is absolutely no doubt that significant numbers of prominent Christians were involved in the killings, sometimes slaughtering their own church leaders," writes Ian Linden. What is particularly disturbing about the church's complicity is that, as John Martin points out, "Rwanda is without doubt one of Africa's most evangelized nations. Eight out of ten of its people claim to be Christians. Moreover, thanks to the East African Revival in the 1930s and a spontaneous movement of the Holy Spirit in the majority of Roman Catholic churches in the 1970s, Rwanda has been held up as one of the jewels in the crown of charismatic Christianity."

By singling out the complicity of Rwandan Christians, I do not mean to deny that many of them courageously opposed the killings, even at the cost of their lives. Neither do I want to suggest that such complicity is an exception to an otherwise impeccable record of Christian peacemaking. The complicity of Rwandan Christians in the genocide was not that of people who used religious symbols merely as a cultural resource, easily misused by politicians in a way that ran at cross-purposes to these commitments. To the contrary, their Christian commitments seemed strong and genuine. The question is not simply, How could Christians have participated in these most heinous crimes? The real issue is much more disturbing. How could the members of churches that had emerged from what was described as a fresh outpouring of the Holy Spirit—the Spirit of communion and the Spirit of life—either participate in or avert their eyes from that genocide?

I want to explore some reasons for this complicity and propose an alternative way of approaching social responsibility that could help churches function as agents of peace. Of course, many Christians in diverse contexts have not been complicit, but faithful. To them I want to offer theological resources to equip them better for the arduous and treacherous task of peacemaking.

Serb soldiers as they leave Kosovo (June 1999). Photo: Thomas Sjorup
Serb soldiers as they leave Kosovo (June 1999). Photo: Thomas Sjørup/sjoerup.com
(09:22) Example of Thin Religion
In response to Krista's request, Professor Volf provides an example of thin religiosity that is represented in the photo near the top of the page. During the civil war, Serbs would often flash the three-fingered salute — the thumb, index finger, and middle finger raised in the air while the third finger and pinky rested against the palm — in a show of religious and cultural solidarity.

The symbol is associated with the Serbian Orthodox Christian Church, and experts say it represents the Christian Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But, through decades of ethnic strife, the gesture took on a nationalist meaning. It is also associated with the "Three Cs," from the nationalist slogan "Only Unity Will Save the Serb." (In the Serbian language, the words "unity," "save" and "Serb" all begin with the Cyrillic letter "c," the equivalent of "s.") It became used as a threatening weapon, an "in your face" gesture aimed at terrorizing non-Serbs.

(11:00–12:12) Music
"String Quartet No. 3 Op. 22: III Ruhige Viertel. Stets Fliebend" from Weill, Schulhoff, Hindemith: String Quartets, performed by Brandis Quartet

(12:31) Krista Asks Volf to Respond to Friedman Column
The reference to the Thomas Friedman column to which Krista refers comes from "Foreign Affairs; The Real War" published in the New York Times. An excerpt of the November 27, 2001 Op-Ed piece follows:

I telephoned Rabbi Hartman and asked: How do we battle religious totalitarianism?

He answered: "All faiths that come out of the biblical tradition — Judaism, Christianity and Islam — have the tendency to believe that they have the exclusive truth. When the Taliban wiped out the Buddhist statues, that's what they were saying. But others have said it too. The opposite of religious totalitarianism is an ideology of pluralism — an ideology that embraces religious diversity and the idea that my faith can be nurtured without claiming exclusive truth. America is the Mecca of that ideology, and that is what bin Laden hates and that is why America had to be destroyed."

The future of the world may well be decided by how we fight this war. Can Islam, Christianity and Judaism know that God speaks Arabic on Fridays, Hebrew on Saturdays and Latin on Sundays, and that he welcomes different human beings approaching him through their own history, out of their language and cultural heritage?

(15:46) Muslim-Christian Dialogue with Archbishop Rowan Williams
Professor Volf says that some of his most fruitful experiences occurred during interfaith, and interecumenical, conversations. The Unites State Institute of Peace hosted such a colloquium on the future of religion and intercommunal relations in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia and the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia) in October 1997.

(17:31–17:46) Music
"Pannonia Boundless" from Kronos Caravan, performed by Kronos Quartet

(19:01) Volf's Reference to Arendt
In discussing why justice alone is not sufficient, Professor Volf paraphrases Hannah Arendt, a 20th century philosopher, who emphasized the need for forgiveness: "Time does not run backwards. You cannot undo the done deed." Read an excerpt from section V: Action, chapter 33: Irreversibility and the Power to Forgive of The Human Condition:

The case of action and action's predicaments is altogether different. Here, the remedy against the irreversibility and unpredictability of the process started by acting does not arise out of another and possibly higher faculty, but is one of the potentialities of action itself. The possible redemption from the predicament of irreversibility—of being unable to undo what one has done though one did not, and could not, have known what he was doing—is the faculty of forgiving. The remedy for unpredictability, for the chaotic uncertainty of the future, is contained in the faculty to make and keep promises. The two faculties belong together in so far as one of them, forgiving, serves to undo the deeds of the past, whose "sins" hang like Damocles' sword over every new generation; and the other, binding oneself through promises, serves to set up in the ocean of uncertainty, which the future is by definition, islands of security without which not even continuity, let alone durability of any kind, would be possible in the relationships between men.

(21:47) South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission
Volf describes the need for forgiveness in politics, and a need for adjustments to allow this to occur — an example being the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that took place in South Africa after the end of Apartheid.

To learn more about this process, listen to a January 2004 broadcast Truth and Reconciliation in which Krista spoke with two people — one black, one white — who did the work of the commission in charge of it.



Courtesy: South African Department of Justice

(21:50–24:18) Music
"Blackwater" from Rain Tree Crow, performed by Rain Tree Crow

(28:07) Reference to Cuban Woman's Question
An excerpt from the article written by Volf, Love Your Heavenly Enemy that Krista referenced regarding the Cuban woman who doesn't want to go to heaven because Castro will be there follows:

When my Yale colleague Professor Carlos Eire visits his elderly mother, he often ends up as a resident theologian for a small Cuban-immigrant community of her friends. "Is it possible," one woman asked him, "for Castro to convert on his deathbed and end up in heaven?"

"It is possible," Professor Eire assured her. "This is what Christian faith is all about. Nobody is beyond the pale of redemption."

"Well, if that were to happen," said the woman, "then I would not want to be in heaven."

Karl Barth was once asked the antithesis of that Cuban expatriate's question: "Is it true that one day in heaven we will see again our loved ones?" Barth responded with a chuckle, "Not only the loved ones!" The sting of the great theologian's response—be ready to meet there even those whom you dislike here—was directed against our propensity to populate heaven only with people whom we like.

Most of us have our own "Castros" with whom we would rather not share the space of the world to come. Heaven with them, we imagine, would feel more like a forecourt of hell.

(29:55–30:30) Music
"Summa" from Arvo Pärt: Sanctuary, performed by the Bournemouth Sinfonietta with Richard Studt

(33:50) Volf Discusses Conscription
In discussing the will to embrace one's enemies, Volf relates a personal story about his conscription into the Yugoslavian military. The Library of Congress provides a concise overview of recruitment and service obligations in the former Yugoslavia.

(40:58–41:58) Music
"Guitar Craft Theme II: Aspiration" from League of Crafty Guitarists Live, performed by Robert Fripp & the League of Crafty Guitarists

(41:15) Conversation with Elie Wiesel
When discussing the act of forgiveness with Volf, Krista quotes Elie Wiesel, "Who am I to forgive?" Listen to Krista and Wiesel in the program The Tragedy of the Believer.

(47:23–48:07) Music
"Sonata for solo violin No. 3 in C major, BWV 1005" from Bach: Sonatas, performed by Manuel Barrueco

(41:15) Reading from the Book of Romans
To close the show, Professor Volf reads the biblical passage from the Book of Romans, chapter 12, verses 9 through 21.

(50:23–52:57) Music
"Pannonia Boundless" from Kronos Caravan, performed by Kronos Quartet