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Host Krista Tippett has a public conversation with Templeton prize winner for science and religion, Quaker cosmologist George Ellis. Ellis is a native South African whose work was condemned under Apartheid. He argues that ethics, like mathematics, is a part of the universe that we discover rather than invent.

Listen to the radio show.
Read more on show's main page.

Web-Exclusive Audio of George Ellis

Listen to more of George Ellis' reflections on why and how the "kenotic ethic" works. (4:09)

Listen: "How is your scientific view of the universe informed by your Quaker faith?" (1:41)

Listen: "What is the Apartheid of our day?" (1:25)

Listen: What existed before the beginning of space and time? What would "before time" look like? (2:00)

Listen: It seems that every scientific discovery just poses a new layer of questions. Will mankind will ever know more about physical reality than we already know? (3:39)

Listen: How do we understand the efficacy of the kenotic ethic, given that suffering remains even after societies are transformed? (1:56)