(03:08) Rod Dreher's Conversion from Catholicism to Eastern Orthodoxy

In October 2006, Rod Dreher announced his conversion from Catholicism to Eastern Orthodoxy in a lengthy post on his Beliefnet blog. In a recent interview with Andrea Unseem, author of the online newsletter ReligionWriter.com, Dreher provided more context on his decision and his formal announcement.

Andrea Useem: “Orthodoxy and Me,” your 5,700-word posting on how and why you converted from Catholicism to Eastern Orthodoxy, has been your most highly trafficked and most-commented-on post to date. Why did you decide to make that personal choice public on your blog almost two years ago now?

Rod Dreher: I felt that I owed it to my readers. I converted to Catholicism back in 1993, and since then I had made my Catholicism a central part of my journalism. When the sex-abuse scandal broke in 2002, I took a role front-and-center writing about it, advocating for reform and castigating the bishops. That role as a Catholic reformer came to define who I was for a lot of my readers. So when I lost my Catholic faith, and ended up moving to Eastern Orthodoxy, I felt I had a professional obligation to my readers to explain why. But I also wanted it to be a confession and a warning to others. I had been very prideful about my Catholic faith and had really thought that, as a Catholic, I was on the intellectual A-Team of Christianity in America. I depended on intellectuality, if that’s a word, to sustain me. Well, I was wrong about that. And I wanted to own up in public to my own responsibility for what happened to me, and not just blame the bishops and the bad priests. There were things that I did or failed to do that resulted in me losing my Catholic faith. If I had been a different kind of Catholic, I might have been able to withstand the time of testing and done what I believe is my duty as a journalist and as a Christian to defend the defenseless and speak out against injustice without blowing up my own faith.

(3:50) Jimmy Carter and The Iranian Hostage Crisis

The website for American Experience's documentary film Jimmy Carter has quite a bit of information about the 1979 Iranian hostage crisis, including news footage of President Carter's address to the nation after the failed hostage rescue attempt.

In the 2007 SOF program "The Private Faith of Jimmy Carter", Carter reflects on his actions during the Iranian hostage crisis:

Ms. Tippett: But when you look back, were there ever times that you felt it impossible to be completely true to your moral sensibility while simply exercising the responsibilities of that office?

Mr. Carter: Well, I really believe that abortion is the most vivid example that sticks in my mind.

Ms. Tippett: OK.

Mr. Carter: I had another problem when the Iranians took our Americans hostage.

Ms. Tippett: Yes.

Mr. Carter: And overwhelmingly, my associates recommended that I take military action because our nation was crying out for me to do so, you know, to punish these terrible Iranians. Of course, it was just a small group of them who were perpetrating that international crime. But I resisted those importunities and that political advice, and I tried to resolve the case peacefully. I had two goals in mind. One was to honor the principles of my country and not to do anything to hurt my nation's reputation or its well-being, and the other one was to bring every hostage home safe and free. And so I would say that I prayed more intensely and more frequently during that year of my life than I did any other time in my life.

Ms. Tippett: OK.

Mr. Carter: And eventually, my prayers came true because I didn't violate the principles of my country or hurt my nation in any way, and every hostage came home safe and free, even though it may have cost me re-election and…

Ms. Tippett: Right. I mean, that's the irony of that, is that maybe what cost you the presidency.

Mr. Carter: Yeah, but still it was the right thing to do. I never had any retrospective regrets about that. And as a matter of fact, God has blessed me with my most pleasant and adventurous, and unpredictable, and gratifying years since I left the White House, although I enjoyed being president.

(05:10) "Birkenstocked Burkeans"

Read Rod Dreher's article in the National Review Online.

(05:25) Coming Back to Faith as an Adult

Dreher mentions some of the reading that complimented his conversion to Catholicism, including Thomas Merton, Walker Percy, and Søren Kierkegaard. Both Merton and Percy are featured in the Speaking of Faith program "Faith Fired by Literature"

(11:48) Departure From Conservative Evangelicals

One example Dreher gives for where he departs from conservative Evangelicals is the "sense of mission for the United States. That the United States has what David Rieff has called 'an American theology' - the idea that we have a special mission in the world and our mission is to serve as God's instrument to bring liberal democracy and all the things that we cherish in this country to the whole world." Dreher feels this has led the Christian church, broadly, into a place of nationalism and that the worship of our nation and its special purposes is a "big blind spot on the Religious Right." David Rieff is a journalist, author, and policy analyst who has been a close observer of war and humanitarian emergencies in places like Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Dreher cites this World Affairs essay by Rieff about neocon foreign policy. It is a response to an article by Robert Kagan titled "Neocon Nation: Neoconservatism.c.1776"

(17:30) Comments by Barack Obama and John McCain at Rick Warren's Saddleback Forum on the Presidency

Krista cites portions of responses by both John McCain and Barack Obama in their August 2008 interview with Evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren at his Saddleback Forum on the Presidency:

On what being a Christian means:

John McCain: It means I'm saved and forgiven. We're talking about the world. Our faith encompasses not just the United States of America but the world. Can I tell you another story real quick?

Warren: Sure.

(Laughter)

McCain: The Vietnamese kept us in prison in conditions of solitary confinement, or two or three to a cell. They did that because they knew they could break down our resistance. One of the techniques that they used to get information was to take ropes and tie them around your biceps, loop the rope around your head and pull it down beneath your knees and leave you in that position. You can imagine it's very uncomfortable.

One night, I was being punished in that fashion. All of sudden the door of the cell opened and the guard came in. The guy who was just — what we call the gun guard — just walked around the camp with the gun on his shoulder. He went like this and loosened the ropes. He came back about four hours later and tightened them up again and left.

The following Christmas, because it was Christmas day, we were allowed to stand outside of our cell for a few minutes. In those days we were not allowed to see or communicate with each other, although we certainly did. And I was standing outside, for my few minutes outside at my cell. He came walking up. He stood there for a minute, and with his sandal on the dirt in the courtyard, he drew a cross and he stood there. And a minute later, he rubbed it out, and walked away.

For a minute there, there was just two Christians worshipping together. I'll never forget that moment. (Applause) So every day.

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Barack Obama: As a starting point, it means I believe in -- that Jesus Christ died for my sins, and that I am redeemed through him. That is a source of strength and sustenance on a daily basis. Yes, I know that I don't walk alone. And I know that if I can get myself out of the way, that I can maybe carry out in some small way what he intends. And it means that those sins that I have on a fairly regular basis, hopefully will be washed away.

But what it also means, I think, is a sense of obligation to embrace not just words, but through deeds, the expectations, I think, that god has for us. And that means thinking about the least of these. It means acting — well, acting justly, and loving mercy, and walking humbly with our god. And that — I think trying to apply those lessons on a daily basis, knowing that you're going to fall a little bit short each day, and then being able to kind of take note and saying, well, that didn't quite work out the way I think it should have, but maybe I can get a little bit better. It gives me the confidence to try things, including things like running for president, where you're going to screw up once in a while.

On Abortion:

Warren: That was a freebie. That was a gimme. That was a gimme, OK? Now, let's deal with abortion; 40 million abortions since Roe v. Wade. As a pastor, I have to deal with this all of the time, all of the pain and all of the conflicts. I know this is a very complex issue. Forty million abortions, at what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?

Obama: Well, you know, I think that whether you're looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade.

Warren: Have you —

Obama: But let me just speak more generally about the issue of abortion, because this is something obviously the country wrestles with. One thing that I'm absolutely convinced of is that there is a moral and ethical element to this issue. And so I think anybody who tries to deny the moral difficulties and gravity of the abortion issue, I think, is not paying attention. So that would be point number one.

But point number two, I am pro-choice. I believe in Roe v. Wade, and I come to that conclusion not because I'm pro-abortion, but because, ultimately, I don't think women make these decisions casually. I think they — they wrestle with these things in profound ways, in consultation with their pastors or their spouses or their doctors or their family members. And so, for me, the goal right now should be — and this is where I think we can find common ground. And by the way, I've now inserted this into the Democratic party platform, is how do we reduce the number of abortions? The fact is that although we have had a president who is opposed to abortion over the last eight years, abortions have not gone down and that is something we have to address.

Warren: Have you ever voted to limit or reduce abortions?

Obama: I am in favor, for example, of limits on late-term abortions, if there is an exception for the mother's health. From the perspective of those who are pro-life, I think they would consider that inadequate, and I respect their views. One of the things that I've always said is that on this particular issue, if you believe that life begins at conception, then — and you are consistent in that belief, then I can't argue with you on that, because that is a core issue of faith for you.

What I can do is say, are there ways that we can work together to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, so that we actually are reducing the sense that women are seeking out abortions. And as an example of that, one of the things that I've talked about is how do we provide the resources that allow women to make the choice to keep a child. You know, have we given them the health care that they need? Have we given them the support services that they need? Have we given them the options of adoption that are necessary? That can make a genuine difference.

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Warren: Let's deal with abortion. I, as a pastor, have to deal with this all the time, every different angle, every different pain, all of the decisions and all of that. Forty million abortions since Roe v. Wade. Some people, people who believe that life begins at conception, believe that's a holocaust for many people. What point is a baby entitled to human rights?

McCain: At the moment of conception. (Applause) I have a 25-year pro-life record in the Congress, in the Senate. And as president of the United States, I will be a pro-life president. And this presidency will have pro-life policies. That's my commitment. That's my commitment to you.

Warren: OK, we don't have to beleaguer on that one.

(21:00) Reference to the Three-Fifths Compromise

Dreher references the Three-Fifths compromise as an analogy for him to the absolute positions taken on abortion and when life begins, including legal and moral rights. The Three-Fifths Compromise, part of the U.S. Constitution, was a compromise between southern and northern states reached during the 1787 Philadelphia Convention to count three-fifths of a state's slaves in apportioning Representatives, Presidential electors, and direct taxes. The text reads: "Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this Union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three-fifths of all other persons."

(21:35) Americans Views on Abortion

A September 2008 report by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life states that slight majority of the U.S. public favors keeping abortion legal. The report also says that while the public generally tends to support legalized abortion, most Americans have concerns about the morality of abortion and favor certain restrictions on its use.

(23:56) Fusionism

Dreher mentions the writings of 20th-century political theorist Russell Kirk in reference to traditionalists of the 1950s who saw religion and morality as being the central cause that conservatives ought to take up, in opposition to the views of libertarian conservatives who believed chief issue was rolling back power of state. These debates spawned fusionism, leading to the conservatism of the late 20th century.

(27:00) Catholic Blogger Mark Shea

Dreher points to the blog of Mark Shea — "Catholic and Enjoying It!" — as an example of where discussions of torture are taking place among conservatives.

(33:15) Audio Clip of Richard Land Live!

The clip is from the August 30, 2008 talk show Richard Land Live! — the nationally-syndicated weekly radio show hosted by Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission. Land is responding to a caller who asked where Sarah Palin stood on the issue of gay marriage.

(35:50) Sarah Palin's Interview with Charles Gibson

Krista and Rod Dreher discuss Sarah Palin's exchange with Charles Gibson in September 2008 about a statement she made at her former Pentecostal church in Wasilla, Alaska. Watch the video of her address to the congregation, where at 3:40 she says "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right also for this country. That our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God, that's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan. So bless them with your prayers, your prayers of protection over our soldiers."

Gibson: You said recently, in your old church, "Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God." Are we fighting a holy war?

Palin: You know, I don't know if that was my exact quote.

Gibson: Exact words.

Palin: But the reference there is a repeat of Abraham Lincoln's words when he said — first, he suggested never presume to know what God's will is, and I would never presume to know God's will or to speak God's words.

But what Abraham Lincoln had said, and that's a repeat in my comments, was let us not pray that God is on our side in a war or any other time, but let us pray that we are on God's side.

That's what that comment was all about, Charlie. And I do believe, though, that this war against extreme Islamic terrorists is the right thing. It's an unfortunate thing, because war is hell and I hate war, and, Charlie, today is the day that I send my first born, my son, my teenage son overseas with his Stryker brigade, 4,000 other wonderful American men and women, to fight for our country, for democracy, for our freedoms.

Charlie, those are freedoms that too many of us just take for granted. I hate war and I want to see war ended. We end war when we see victory, and we do see victory in sight in Iraq.

Gibson: I take your point about Lincoln's words, but you went on and said, "There is a plan and it is God's plan."

Palin: I believe that there is a plan for this world and that plan for this world is for good. I believe that there is great hope and great potential for every country to be able to live and be protected with inalienable rights that I believe are God-given, Charlie, and I believe that those are the rights to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

That, in my world view, is a grand — the grand plan.

Gibson: But then are you sending your son on a task that is from God?

Palin: I don't know if the task is from God, Charlie. What I know is that my son has made a decision. I am so proud of his independent and strong decision he has made, what he decided to do and serving for the right reasons and serving something greater than himself and not choosing a real easy path where he could be more comfortable and certainly safer.

(44:55) "Poets Are the Unacknowledged Legislators of the World."

Dreher quotes the last sentence in poet Percy Bysshe Shelley's 1821 essay, "A Defence of Poetry."