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Program Particulars

*Times indicated refer to web version of audio

(1:24) "Civil Forum on the Presidency"

This video contains coverage of the first ten minutes of the Saddleback forum. You can view the video of the rest of the forum on CNN's website.

(01:43) Saddleback Church and The Purpose Driven Life

Saddleback Church is located in Lake Forest, California, south of Los Angeles in Orange County. Founded in 1980, the church welcomed 200 people to its first service. Approximately 100,000 people are members of the church, and weekly services regularly draw 20,000 congregants. The Saddleback "campus" also has several distinct venues, each with a different style of worship serving different tastes. At the core of the Saddleback vision is Rick Warren's "purpose-driven paradigm" encapsulated in his books The Purpose Driven Church (1995) and The Purpose Driven Life (2002). The Purpose Driven Life offers a study and action program of "40 days of purpose" based on themes:

  • "We were planned for God's pleasure, so your first purpose is to offer real worship."
  • "We were formed for God's family, so your second purpose is to enjoy real fellowship."
  • "We were created to become like Christ, so your third purpose is to learn real discipleship."
  • "We were shaped for serving God, so your fourth purpose is to practice real ministry."
  • "We were made for a mission, so your fifth purpose is to live out real evangelism."

(02:05–04:10) Music Element

"The Multiples of One"
from Awakening,
performed by Joseph Curiale


(03:22) Third Summit on AIDS and the Church

With World AIDS Day on December 1, 2007, Saddleback Church hosted the Third Annual Summit on AIDS and the Church beginning on November 28. The three-day summit included live, in-person addresses by Rick Warren, Kay Warren, Democratic presidential candidate Senator Hillary Clinton, First Lady of Rwanda Jeannette Kagame, and First Lady of Zambia Maureen Mwanawasa. Five other American presidential candidates delivered videotaped messages. At the conference, Rick Warren addressed the attendees by saying, "People are asking, 'How many people have AIDS?' — but that is the wrong question; rather, we should be asking, 'Why should anyone have AIDS?' You are God's plan to bring relief to this pandemic."

(03:55) Peter Drucker

Peter Drucker (1909–2005) was one of the most influential figures of business management in the 20th century. Born in Vienna, Austria, he left Europe during the rise of Nazism and settled in America. He taught for 21 years at New York University, wrote 39 books, served as a management consultant to the corporate world, and received the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2002. After his death, a profile in BusinessWeek explored Peter Drucker's life and ideas in the business world:

Shortly after [Jack] Welch became CEO of General Electric in 1981, for example, he sat down with Drucker at the company's New York headquarters. Drucker posed two questions that arguably changed the course of Welch's tenure: "If you weren't already in a business, would you enter it today?" he asked. "And if the answer is no, what are you going to do about it? Those questions led Welch to his first big transformative idea: that every business under the GE umbrella had to be either No. 1 or No. 2 in its class. If not, Welch decreed that the business would have to be fixed, sold, or closed. It was the core strategy that helped Welch remake GE into one of the most successful American corporations of the past 25 years.

(04:33–04:51) Music Element

"Go Where I Send Thee"
from Gospel Music,
performed by The Golden Gate Jubilee Quartet


(05:45) Definition of Megachurch

A megachurch is a large church that can host upwards of 2,000 congregants at a time. While there have historically been large churches accommodating congregations of that size, the latter half of the 20th century saw an increased proliferation of such churches, particularly in suburban America among Evangelical and Pentecostal movements of Protestant Christianity. A megachurch is often non-denominational, and thus free to innovate new methods of attracting and engaging congregants. For example, in order to better engage large audiences of congregants, megachurches incorporate multimedia elements such as video projection, amplified sound, and contemporary or pop-style devotional music. Traditionalists criticize megachurches for focusing more on targeted marketing for a "seeker-friendly" experience, and for a greater reliance on branding, management, and mass entertainment, then for emphasizing personal salvation and Jesus Christ's messages as mandated in the Bible.

(05:47) Reference to Bill Hybels

Bill Hybels (b. 1952) is a pastor who founded Willow Creek Community Church in the Chicago suburb of South Barringtcon, Illinois. In July 2007, ChurchReport listed the megachurch as the most influential in the U.S. as chosen by pastors nationwide. The second-most influential, according to the same ranking, was Saddleback Church. Like Rick Warren, Bill Hybels says, "You matter to God." Like Saddleback, Willow Creek is a large church congregation composed of small groups, and was founded in the 1970s and drew an initial congregation of 125 worshippers. Since then, the Willow Creek Community Church campus has expanded to cover a 155-acre area.

(06:27) The Largest Church in the World

The Yoido Full Gospel Church in Seoul, South Korea, is the largest Christian congregation in the world, with 830,000 members as of 2007. The Pentecostal church can accommodate 12,000 congregants inside its structure, with another 20,000 in neighboring buildings. The church was founded in 1958 by David Yonggi Cho (b. 1936), a convert from Buddhism. Another four of the world's ten largest congregations are also located in South Korea.

(07:39) Small Groups of "Cells"

Malcolm Gladwell wrote a profile piece of Rick Warren and the growth of Saddleback Church called "The Cellular Church" for The New Yorker in 2005. In the article, Gladwell offered an explanation of the effective use of small groups called "cells" that help reinforce the ideals of commitment and community in megachurches. He drew comparisons between how the small study groups are used in modern churches and how they have been used historically in groups like local communist parties and Alcoholics Anonymous recovery groups:

When churches—in particular, the megachurches that became the engine of the evangelical movement, in the nineteen-seventies and eighties—began to adopt the cellular model, they found out the same thing. The small group was an extraordinary vehicle of commitment. It was personal and flexible. It cost nothing. It was convenient, and every worshipper was able to find a small group that precisely matched his or her interests. Today, at least forty million Americans are in a religiously based small group, and the growing ranks of small-group membership have caused a profound shift in the nature of the American religious experience.

J.J. Helland for The Revealer says Gladwell's comparisons are unfair to the parishioners and his analysis underestimates Warren's appeal:

Such connotations make it harder to understand the spiritual dimensions of Warren's appeal, a feature complicated even further by the fact that Gladwell glibly compares the Saddleback Church's "small groups" and their effectiveness to the group tactics of Alcoholics Anonymous and communists. One can only imagine the reaction from a member of Warren's congregation in which the appeal of their faith is construed with that of physical addiction and a ideology.

At the end of the piece, Gladwell offers the reader a sort of "conversion" narrative of Warren's. After he reaped the wealth and fame of his book's success, he gave much of the book's proceeds away, started to engage the gay community on how to fight AIDS, and begun to think about poverty. But it felt less like an attempt to identify who the real Rick Warren is, and more like a secular effort to mollify and convince liberals not to condemn him out of hand. Warren is not a liberal by any means, so why does Gladwell attempt to redeem him in the end with some sort of progressive narrative?

(08:58) "She's Written a Book on Commitment"

Kay Warren wrote Dangerous Surrender, which was released in December 2007.

(09:13) "Jesus Said, 'Come and See'"

Warren cites an a phrase from the first chapter of the gospel of John, verses 35-51 of the Bible (New Revised Standard Version):

The next day John again was standing with two of his disciples, and as he watched Jesus walk by, he exclaimed, "Look, here is the Lamb of God!"

The two disciples heard him say this, and they followed Jesus. When Jesus turned and saw them following, he said to them, "What are you looking for?" They said to him, "Rabbi" (which translated means Teacher), "where are you staying?" He said to them, "Come and see." They came and saw where he was staying, and they remained with him that day. It was about four o'clock in the afternoon. One of the two who heard John speak and followed him was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. He first found his brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which is translated Anointed). He brought Simon to Jesus, who looked at him and said, "You are Simon son of John. You are to be called Cephas" (which is translated Peter).

The next day Jesus decided to go to Galilee. He found Philip and said to him, "Follow me." Now Philip was from Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter. Philip found Nathanael and said to him, "We have found him about whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus son of Joseph from Nazareth." Nathanael said to him, "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" Philip said to him, "Come and see." When Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward him, he said of him, "Here is truly an Israelite in whom there is no deceit!" Nathanael asked him, "Where did you get to know me?" Jesus answered, "I saw you under the fig tree before Philip called you." Nathanael replied, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!" Jesus answered, "Do you believe because I told you that I saw you under the fig tree? You will see greater things than these." And he said to him, "Very truly, I tell you, you will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man."

(10:50) Four Different Covenants

The commitment to Saddleback Church's philosophy is embodied in four "covenants," which echo the elements of the "purpose-driven paradigm":

  1. A Membership Covenant;
  2. A Maturity Covenant;
  3. A Ministry Covenant; and
  4. A Missions Covenant.

(11:22–13:32) Music Element

"Lookout for Hope"
from Lookout for Hope,
performed by Jerry Douglas


(12:30) Global Online Community of Pastors

Pastors.com is Rick Warren's online community and resource center for training pastors. Among the offerings at the Web site are online forums and products such as study kits for schools, small groups, and communities.

(17:09) Black Plague

The Black Plague (also known as the Black Death) was a pandemic originating in China in the 1300s, responsible for some 85 million deaths across Asia and Europe. It's commonly believed that the pandemic was an outbreak of bubonic plague spread by rats and fleas. Estimates of 20 to 30 million people died from the effects of the pandemic in Europe and America — roughly one-third of the continent's population at the time. Approximately 100 million people worldwide are projected to be afflicted by HIV/AIDS by 2020.

(20:20) P.E.A.C.E. Plan

The P.E.A.C.E. Plan is a five-point plan that places local churches around the world at the heart of a strategy to combat HIV/AIDS and a host of other global issues. The PEACE Plan focuses on "ordinary people, empowered by God, making a difference wherever they are" and is an acronym: Promote reconciliation, Equip leaders, Assist the poor, Care for the sick, and Educate the next generation.

(20:21–21:33) Music Element

"Hanana"
from Savane,
performed by Ali Farka Toure


(22:48) World Economic Forum at Davos

The World Economic Forum is a Swiss organization that annually meets in Davos, Switzerland, and attracts many prominent political and economic leaders from around the world. These leaders discuss issues surrounding global economic development. The event also draws high-profile activists and intellectuals trying to draw attention to important global issues such as climate change and poverty. The World Economic Forum annual meeting has also been criticized by anarchist activists and non-governmental organizations as an opportunity for world leaders and corporations to further ideals of economic liberalism and globalization to the detriment of human development.

(26:47) "Love Your Neighbor as Yourself

Warren cites one of the most quoted verses from the New Testament book of Romans, chapter 13, verses 9-10:

The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery; You shall not murder; You shall not steal; You shall not covet"; and any other commandment, are summed up in this word, "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

(27:00) Aspen Ideas Institute

The Aspen Institute is a non-profit organization fostering the development of international leadership and dialogue. The Institute holds an annual conference called the Aspen Ideas Festival. The conference brings together leaders from politics, business, science, the arts, health, education, religion, and other area to exchange ideas, philosophies, and approaches about issues of global importance.

(29:15–31:50) Music Element

"Jesus is Just Alright"
from Color Blind,
performed by Color Blind Robert Randolph & The Family Band


(39:00) "The Friend of Sinners"

Christians look to the way Jesus Christ lived his life and befriended people from all parts of society. The seventh chapter from the gospel of Luke, verses 33-35, points to Jesus' example:

For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, "He has a demon'; the Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, "Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Nevertheless, wisdom is vindicated by all her children.

(40:02) America's Pastor

In February 2005, TIME magazine listed their 25 most influential Evangelical leaders in the United States. The magazine named Rick Warren "America's New People's Pastor":

These are heady times for Rick Warren. His book The Purpose Driven Life, which says that meaning in life comes through following God's purposes, has sold more than 20 million copies over the past two years and is the best-selling hardback in U.S. history. When he took the podium to pray on the final night of Billy Graham's Los Angeles crusade at the Rose Bowl in November, the 82,000 congregants cheered as if Warren had scored the winning touchdown. And on the eve of the presidential Inauguration, Warren, who pastors the 22,000-member Saddleback megachurch in Lake Forest, Calif., delivered the Invocation at the gala celebration. Later he met with 15 Senators, from both parties, who sought his advice and heard his plan to enlist Saddleback's global network of more than 40,000 churches in tackling such issues as poverty, disease and ignorance. And when 600 senior pastors were asked to name the people they thought had the greatest influence on church affairs in the country, Warren's name came in second only to Billy Graham's. Although Franklin Graham is heir to the throne of the Billy Graham organization, many believe that Warren, 51, is the successor to the elder Graham for the role of America's minister.

(40:41) "The Lust of the Flesh…"

Warren is paraphrasing a line from the second chapter of the gospel of John 1. The New Revised Standard Version of the Bible uses the term "desire" instead of "lust":

Do not love the world or the things in the world. The love of the Father is not in those who love the world; for all that is in the world — the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eyes, the pride in riches — comes not from the Father but from the world. And the world and its desire are passing away, but those who do the will of God live forever.

(42:54) Citation of 1 Corinthians

Warren cites a pivotal passage from Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, chapter 9:11-19:

If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits? If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we still more? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is sacrificed on the altar? In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel. But I have made no use of any of these rights, nor am I writing this so that they may be applied in my case. Indeed, I would rather die than that — no one will deprive me of my ground for boasting! If I proclaim the gospel, this gives me no ground for boasting, for an obligation is laid on me, and woe to me if I do not proclaim the gospel! For if I do this of my own will, I have a reward; but if not of my own will, I am entrusted with a commission. What then is my reward? Just this: that in my proclamation I may make the gospel free of charge, so as not to make full use of my rights in the gospel. For though I am free with respect to all, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I might win more of them.

(45:57–46:32) Music Element

"Savane"
from Savane,
performed by Ali Farka Toure


(48:32) Quote from The Purpose Driven Life

Krista cites a line from the opening chapters of Rick Warren's 2002 book, The Purpose Driven Life:

Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death.

(50:19–52:49) Music Element

"The Last Mile of the Way"
from Gospel Music,
performed by The Soul Stirrers