Listeners' Reflections

This is your place to publicly comment on the topics and issues addressed in Speaking of Faith programs. React in a personal way, and put into words what this program meant to you.

Submit Your Reflection about "The New Evangelical Leaders: Rick and Kay Warren."

A Show on Megachurches? (December 17, 2007)
I loved your interview with the Warrens and it got me thinking about the interesting phenomenon that is the megachurch. In the last few weeks there was an excellent article in The New Yorker about a rising megachurch in New England, which discusses, among other issues, why it is difficult for a megachurch to take root in New England, and not in Houston or Orange County. I spent most of my life in New England and New York, and I currently live in Houston, so I instinctively understood this even though I never gave it much thought.

I ignored megachurches for several years, assuming them to be part of a general conservative wackery that would last as long as Bush's popularity; but now, as I time my Sunday runs to the grocery store to avoid traffic from the Lakewood Church, or I see my college biology students carrying around a dog-eared copies of The Purpose-Driven Life, I realize that this phenomenon is here to stay at least for a while, and I am intrigued. The Warrens are interesting ambassadors of this foreign culture and have managed to push me to get past my Northeastern liberal academic myopia about not only religion, but this particular brand of it. They're on to something important, and I want to know more about it.

I would love to hear an exploration of the megachurches in the U.S., the history, sociology, theology, and politics. I think your show would be the ideal forum. You are very respectful, yet you don't shy away from the hard questions. My own bias would of course be to hear an academic discussion in that same vein-probing yet respectful, not a deconstruction. My sense from the Warrens' interview is that many of these churches are now at a crossroads. They have been extremely successful at reaching many people, building self-contained communities that offer a positive message and "moral guardrails" to people in transitions or just otherwise wrestling with the alienation of modern life. It seems that many of these churches are somewhat more tolerant of political, ethnic, and racial diversity than stereotype would suggest, and not simply a subsidiary of the GOP. Some do seem rather obsessed with numbers as an apparent goal, but others, like the Warrens, want to continue their evolution, and it will be very interesting to see where they go.

Personally I find the theology more than a bit infantile (God is your best friend, your marriage counselor, your financial guru, He has a plan for you , etc.), but again this could just be the outsider's view. Nonetheless, I can not help but be slightly envious of the tight-knit communities that these churches are building, and the depth of faith and commitment that they inspire. And if megachurch communities can manage to channel their collective energies into fighting AIDS or poverty or whatever, well, they're doing more good than I am sitting in my office criticizing their theology. I'd love to see what you could do with this. Yours is a truly exceptional show with a unique perspective and an audience who, most of the time, really want to learn something new. On an unrelated note, I'm found the negativity of the response to your excellent show with Harvey Cox rather disturbing. I hope you don't let nonsense like that derail you. It was one of my all-time favorite shows.

Mary Ellen Lane
Houston, TX (Listens to SOF Podcast)

Disappointment (December 14, 2007)
If I were to make a generous guess at why SOF chose to devote a program to the self promotion of Rick and Kay Warren, it would be that Rick Warren has made the biggest splash in the world of the church in recent memory. He has been brilliant at marketing his fundamentalist Southern Baptist religion, and that is worthy of note. But the program purported to offer insight into the great leadership of a movement for a new kind of spirit in a new kind of church. If that's what SOF was after, it was, to me, in all my years of listening to this marvelous program, an enormous disappointment.

So Kay Warren woke up one day (after years of her husband's smashing success and the renown and influence that came with it) to notice that there were orphans. Then after some extended "pillow talk," Mr. Warren squinted hard enough to see them, too. So after something like 25 years of ministry, they got it. That's very good. But I want SOF to spend its programming on the people who were doing the enlightened work while the Warrens sat in the dark. One last comment: When Krista asked Kay Warren a meaningful question about how working on AIDS has changed her, only to hear Mrs. Warren respond with such extended evasion and spin as would make our most cynical politicians jealous, you lost me. Krista may as well have handed over her tape recorder and left the room. The Warrens had rendered her irrelevant to the interview.

J. Christy Wareham
Newark, NY (Listens to SOF OnDemand)

Group Process (December 12, 2007)
I'm a Christian; Carl Sagan would probably refer to my type as "a thorough-going mystic." Thank you so much for your programs. You provide a great spectrum of representation from the "camps" of the hyper-rational, skeptic, reason/knowledge-deficient, etc. In doing so, you reinforce the conviction that in order to love bio-psycho-socio-spiritually, we need to listen to the "other" camps across cultures, hard science/math, religion, psychology, etc.

Like wave versus particle theory, the "other's" world view is in apparent paradox to our own, but principles of love transcend these apparent paradoxes. The Warrens' growth, as expressed in the repentance that they encourage regarding neglecting the other, reinforces that we can grow in our ability to transcend cultural limitation, working with the "other" to improve the condition of all "others."

James Williford
Greensboro, NC (Listens to SOF OnDemand)

Megachurch Angst (December 12, 2007)
In the short time since I have discovered speakingoffaith.org, Ms. Tippett and her guests through podcasts have become my constant jogging companions. As someone who teaches pastoral theology in an Evangelical Christian liberal arts college, this latest interview with Rick Warren was of particular interest. I thought it was revealing that he began Saddleback by studying the 100 largest churches in America in search of the healthy church. From a North American perspective it is difficult to argue with the rationale for such methodology. We readily assume healthy churches must be large churches. Health is readily related to quantitative success even if we do not say it too loudly.

Presently I am completing research for my own volume that begins with the counter-intuitive hypothesis smaller churches are in a better position to define health given that they must define themselves in ways that preclude statistical numbers. This does not mean that by default they can better define what it means to be healthy, it simply means they cannot hide behind numbers. A smaller church cannot simply say, "see our steeple, open the doors, and see all the people" as justification for their health. In fact such pragmatism can only conclude that the smaller church is not healthy, that something must be missing, and if the leadership can find that something, the church will turn around and grow numerically — a presupposition that is not too encouraging for the majority smaller church.

My own journey has led me to discover a proliferation of intentional smaller churches that appear at least in part as a reaction to the megachurch image. This could be a theme for future discussions. My biggest disappointment in the interview, however, occurred at the end when Ms. Tippett perceptively asked the only real theological question of the interview, namely how does Warren reconcile a theology that preordains birth, calling, and death with things like genocide in Rwanda? Mr. Warren interrupted the question and then proceeded to avoid the answer entirely by deflecting the attention to his actions on behalf of the disadvantaged. Such actions are laudable but are strikingly at odds with his own theology. Had he even said, "I do not know" it might have been more encouraging. In any event the question revealed a blind spot that is troubling in the Evangelical world of Mr. Warren.

Randall Holm
Winnipeg, Manitoba (Listens to SOF Podcast)

Did You Ask Them? (December 12, 2007)
These people sense a change in the political winds and are trying to appeal to anybody but their Republican base. Hence an interview on public radio. I missed some of your interview but I hoped you asked them about the following: Best-selling author and televangelist Joyce Meyer, known for her candid, self-effacing speaking style, is also under investigation. Her office headquarters, with its 158,000-square-foot, three-story building and furniture estimated at $5.7 million, was built for $20 million in 2001. Since 1999, Meyer's ministry has reported spending at least $4 million on five homes for Meyer and her four children, the largest of which is Meyer's 10,000-square-foot Cape Cod style estate that spreads over three acres and includes a private putting green, a gazebo, a pool and a pool house. Among the items under Senate investigation are a $23,000 "commode with marble top," a $30,000 conference table, and an $11,219 French clock, all purchased for Meyer's ministry headquarters. Meyer seems unapologetic for her accumulated wealth. As she blatantly acknowledged: "If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid. I am living now in my reward."

Maybe they should sell some of their holdings and help the poor.

Steve Stiloski
Jackson, WI (WUWM, 89.7 FM)

Didn't Sit Right (December 11, 2007)
Your program hits home with me every time. Something didn't quite sit right with me, however, after listening to the Warrens' interview. They are serious and dedicated people and I admire their work. There is one thing, though, that seemed odd about the reference to "being the friend of sinners." Are we not all sinners? This statement, when I think about it, seems to imply a difference the speaker perceives about himself vis-a-vis the sinner. Like, "hey man, you're a sinner, but I'm your friend anyway."

Mike Ruhland
Carbondale, IL (WSIU, 89.3 FM)

Sin of Omission (December 11, 2007)
After listening to the program I felt a bit disturbed and, upon first reflection, I was not sure why. Having been to Saddleback Church on various occasions and also I was a college friend of the Warren's daughter, I am familiar with what they stand for and as an Evangelical I am a big supporter of their social work and concern for the poor. Yet I felt in a way that I was being sold something — that there was little time for true reflection or that Rick was not truly transparent. I am not saying he is a liar — just that I would have liked him to be more frank and candid and less preachy. His message is a good one yet somehow it was shoved behind a poor delivery. I wanted to hear more from his wife Kay, her journey from a good life with little problems to an amazing life with many worries and struggles. I wanted Rick to be still a bit and allow some air to flow between questions, to let Krista ask them and to let Kay answer fully. I wanted Rick to tell us what he truly struggles with… I realize after some reflection that it is not what Rick said that disturbed me; it was that he said too much, too fast about so little. I wish he would have said less, slower, about more.

Monica Curca
Buena Park, CA (KPCC, 89.3 FM)

Too Slick (December 11, 2007)
Your last two guests irritated me into sending this. So slick. Such calming and right-sounding words. I can almost hear the upper middle class women saying "Yes! How true!" But these are people with their finger in the air. Programs to help people. Sure. A few — I have a friend, the mayor of a city, who has a similar help program getting people into housing. She got an award. They use simplistic metaphors: a three-legged stool will fall without one of the legs? Their programs can't help a thousandth of that such as the work-study program, or Social Security. I was helped by that good secular program and I didn't see any church applauding. They are political/religious people saying all the right things for a few people who won't change anything significant.

Michael Felix
Grand Rapids, MN (KNBJ, 91.3 FM)

Standing Before God (December 10, 2007)
It was wonderful to hear the Christian faith spoken with compassion and love by the Warrens. Clearly they are operating in love unconditionally. If we are to be Christ-like, which is our goal as Christians, we will need to be a friend of sinners as He (Jesus) was. Personally, I am much more comfortable with the idea of standing before God having extended too much grace to folks than not enough.

Peter Dupre
North Billerica, MA (WBUR, 90.9 FM)

Evangelism (December 10, 2007)
Thank you for your interview with Rick and Kay Warren ("friends of sinners on their tombstone"). It is heartwarming to hear two people who truly love the Lord and listen to His voice. Thank you again.

Lawrence Mcpherson
Highland Heights, KY (WVXU, 91.7 FM)

A Source of Wealth (December 10, 2007)
I thought it was incredible and outrageous that in the conversation with Jim Wallis and then Rick and Kay Warren, when discussing the injustices of the world, I did not hear the word "war" uttered once. If the ravages of war upon the peoples of the world was discussed and I missed it, I apologize. If it was mentioned by the guests or Krista Tippett in the original interviews, and then not discussed in the edited broadcast, the above criticism stands.

How is it possible to discuss poverty, hunger, and disease among the people of the world and say it is time to stop these social injustices without acknowledging that our world is awash with military weapons, without acknowledging the military/industrial/academic/congressional/corporate complex in the United States, and that while war brings death and destruction to the people of the world, (along with poverty, hunger, and disease) it is also a source of wealth and riches to those who perpetuate war.

Marcia R Jansen
Indianapolis, IN (WFYI, 90.1 FM)

Can We Say the Same? (December 10, 2007)
Wow-Wow-Wow. Rick and Kay hit the nail on the head. They have given me a truer definition of Evangelical. Great program Krista. I enjoy all of Speaking of Faith but I found this program especially timely. Rick and Kay hear the Word and do the Word. Can we say the same?

Tom Kaiser
West Allis, WI (WUWM, 89.7 FM)

My Source for Religious Conversation (December 10, 2007)
Thank you for your excellent interview of Rick and Kay Warren. I discovered your program just today and I am delighted to say I listened to your entire interview. I have selected your radio station and your program to be my source for up to the minute live information by people of faith for the future. I enjoyed all your questions and all their answers. On reflection, what I liked best was the way you helped them bring out the real spirit and significance of their message. It was like the hand and the glove working together. Great Job. Thanks for the excellence you put into your work.

Donnie Justice
Pikeville, KY (Listens to SOF OnDemand)

Pax Vobiscum (December 10, 2007)
I generally enjoy the broad-minded give and take of your program and as such have recommended to many skeptical, strongly secular friends. Today I must take a strong exception. The comments, quotations, and position statements of Rick Warren amounted to an unchallenged rant of his definitions of what Christianity and even beyond spirituality is. Worse, I heard an unchallenging acceptance of his enumeration of the wonderful personal achievements of his personal faith and more particularly his boastful declaration and hubris about the "largest body of faithful and numbering billions among humanity." His arrogance, wrapped in pious words and declarative logic, exceeded the arrogance of even George W. Bush declaring that he is following a "higher law."

All human faiths including Christianity have been entangled in doubts, divergences, and strife. The more closely defined the doctrine the bloodier the conflicts within. Let me quote a couple of glaring and very current examples. Clearly Warren and his smug religionists hold to the My-God-beats-your-God of the worst religious wars, tortures and pogroms of Christendoms fro Huguenots to Hussites to Joan d'Árc and the Pilgrims, not to mention the SS with their belt buckles of "Gott mit uns."

So, is there no hope? Is there no spirituality? Is the teachings of Jesus Christ lost hopelessly in the smug hubris of the likes of Rick Warren, Rapture devotees, and piou s demagogues like George W. Bush ? Not at all. The recognition that morality precedes faith and faith lives even without religion and that religion is practiced in the temple within and not in megachurches like Rick Warren's Saddleback congregation of a 100,000 and Saddleback Ministry in the millions, but above all without the billions dollars taken in by the Christian ministries, the Roman Catholic Church, at the Hajj and such as the American Jewish Congress etc. UNICEF, UNESCO, UNNRRA and organizations like Peace Corps, Physicians Without Borders ought to be quite enough outlets to fill the need for spiritual activism in human beings. As an irony, I use to live in the backyard of Saddleback Church and knew many of the parishioners from back in the '70s. Pax vobiscum!

George Roberts
Warsaw, Poland (NPR Worldwide Satellite)

Rekindled Intent (December 9, 2007)
I gave up on the church many years ago as entirely misrepresentative of the person Jesus who inspired them. Rick and Kay have my highest respect for attempting to rekindle the original intent of Divine Love Incarnate. I will certainly be tuning in to learn more about their mission as I have seen nor felt no passion such as this in a long time. I am normally quite disdainful and contemptuous of preachers of megachurches in general, but these leaders have not prompted one bit of discord in my BS radar!

Ricky OmLight
Macon, GA (WMUM, 89.7 FM)

A Good Choice (December 9, 2007)
Thank you for choosing to interact with such significant Evangelical leaders. I'm fascinated with the development of their spirituality. As someone who identifies more with post-modern sensibilities, it was wonderful to be drawn to their compassion and faith, even if their feel and style are different than what I ordinarily resonate with. They deal in lots of acronyms, bullet-point messages, principles to live by, etc. — and yet I found them challenging and compelling. A good choice to exemplify the changing of the old guard within Christendom.

Mike Winkler
Orlando, FL (Listens to SOF OnDemand)

The Warrens Do Not Get It (December 9, 2007)
I am furious — totally furious. I don't even know where to start. I'm African and I know the only reason Africans are surviving with the little they have (and they share it with their neighbors) is because of their spirituality! That is not what they lack. And besides, they are Christians, Muslims, Animists, and non-believers.

Were the Warrens that naive or ignorant or that arrogant about the rest of the world. They both claim that they really didn't care about HIV/AIDS and its impact in the rest of the world until 2002. Where was their compassion as Christians? Where is their awareness about the status of the rest of the world? What were they teaching their followers? The Warrens and their friends, such as Rupert Murdoch and George Bush and the Clintons are the ones who come up with or support policies that are destructive to the fabric of the Africans' lives. Malaria is now rampant because of the policy (dictated by outsiders) to stop selective DDT use to eradicate malaria.

I'm so tired of hearing of "saviors" from the outside trying to rescue the "poor" Africans — so patronizing. If you want to help, ask what the Africans want without pushing your religion. Instead, get them the resources so that Africans can help themselves. And most of all, ask your friends (i.e., Bush) to get rid of the corrupt leaders they continue to help stay in power. I'm so tired, and Krista, you should have challenged them.

Blain Mamo
Minneapolis, MN (KNOW, 91.1 FM)

I'm So Impressed... (December 9, 2007)
As a practicing Sikh who grew up in the Christian church, I usually get ready to cringe when I hear a Christian Evangelical or fundamentalist is going to speak on the air. I get sick and tired of all the usual divisive language from these spokespeople that pretends to know who God is going to let into Heaven and who is going to Hell. The words of Rick and Kay Warren swung the door of my heart wide open. From all I heard, I could not find a single offensive or bigoted word from either of them. Not only that, but they really seem to get what faith and love are all about.

I wonder if they take it one step further and are open to joining with all faiths of goodwill (including those who may call themselves nonbelievers) to help the poor and needy, without the ulterior motive of proselytizing and without the ego of assuming that other faiths are inferior. My own conviction, as a Sikh and as a person, is that every person has a right and duty to find the relationship with God that best works for them. I do not believe that God favors only people of any one religion, nor that Jesus and other God-awakened beings could possibly be in competition for believers. When we all keep our hearts open to celebrate, learn from, and serve our fellow humans, without a hidden agenda, then we truly bring the presence of God amongst us. I would love to hear from Rick and/or Kay and know their thoughts about the above.

Avtar Kaur Khalsa
Millis, MA (WBUR, 90.9 FM)

Always a Catch (December 9, 2007)
Krista should have been tougher on Rick and Kay Warren, but I guess there was really no other way to conduct a civil interview — something I might not have done. One has to be polite, after all. I do love Krista's programs; we all need to know more about the world's religions and belief systems. It was heartening to learn that Kay Warren has become such a spokesman for AIDS anyway, though I'm pretty sure that if she would have been really honest, we would have found out her and her husband's real feelings about homosexuals — "they are unnatural perverts sinning against God's word" — even the Warrens must know how politically incorrect that point of view has gotten to be in today's world. As an Agnostic/Atheist, I totally disagree with most everything they have to say regarding worship, etc. It's good that they want to help people less fortunate than they are, but there's always a catch when you are an Evangelical Christian, isn't there?

Christine Olin
Monrovia, CA (KPCC, 89.3 FM)

Challenge Somebody Please (December 9, 2007)
Once again a program that features the anti-science Religious Right crew and Krista allows the good preacher to run his mouth continually exactly like a politician that doesn't want to be interrupted. Would it be possible to ask him some more pointed questions about his relationship with Rupert or George W.? Are these guys supposed to represent the ideal of the purpose driven life? George W. is a believer and his answer to everything is if you don't agree with me I'll either bomb you or not talk to you. Now that's real compassion at work. The question is what is the purpose of broadcasting these programs if you never ask any hard questions? Is it just to appeal to the listeners of the Religious Right? This program was a real disservice to the public radio audience. Why can't you at least challenge some of the backward ideas regarding scientific thought that are at the heart of much of the Evangelical movement? Yes, you gave two shows to Einstein but after all he was one of the most important "thinkers" of the 20th century. The two shows about Evangelicals is looking like pandering to the Evangelical listener.

Patrick Graney
O Fallon, MO (KUOM, 90.7 FM)

Moving in Another Direction (December 9, 2007)
I have had some clarification of the issues from my exposure to The Orthodox Church and to the radio program. They are speaking of the errors of Christianity and especially of modern Protestants — and are speaking of a positive ministry rather than being against the narrow, them (gays, secularists, women, Mormons, etc) who are the whipping children, the red herrings of the Christian Right. They speak of the need for ministering to the poor, orphaned, those with HIV. This is a major break for the Christian Right, the political movement they claim lost its way about 75 years ago.

They speak of the many failings of the modern American Protestant movement, both middle of the road and the far right. It is these failings I was railing against in my youth. I saw the Church as a refuge from the world — a place to wear your blindfold, to associate only with those like yourself (not Mary Magdalene type), to wear good clothes on Sunday and thus impress your neighbors. Sure the teachings were mentioned, but only in platitudinous ways. I did not see the Church then as a source of strength, of morality, of direction. The Church taught of love and beauty, of God caring for every hair on your head, but never could explain how the majority of the people in the world live in poverty and disease and corruption, and also hurricanes, tornadoes, crime, and other evils. I could not look outside and see how what the Church taught aligned with the real world.

At the time of my youth, the only Protestants I saw were drawing the direction and morality of their life from the secularist world, and singing hymns on Sunday morning, which they did not understand. They had "Beans in their Ears." Now the far right with its "Me First Into Heaven" philosophy is even worse. I lumped the Catholics with the middle of the road Protestants.

I think the new Evangelicals still need to move on to the translation of the second Great Commandant I heard in the Antioch and Western Orthodox Churches:– How you treat the poor, the orphaned, those with HIV and also your neighbors, your friends, your co-workers, strangers in stores and on the street is how you are treating Christ. They need to learn there are two sides to the coin that earns the rewards — faith and works. Witness the Sermon on the Mount. I feel no one could read that and arrive at faith is the only way — Wallis said that the Sermon on the Mount was never mentioned in his Christian upbringing. How can one read of fig trees and thorn bushes and then hear God say, in the very next verse, that He shall turn His face from many who have claimed to be doing His work, for they have not been doing His work and still deny that works are a major part of earning the rewards. Christ taught of how we should live and move in this world, in our every day life — not only of how we treat the poor and those with HIV, or what hymns we sing on Sunday morning, or how we railed against the anti-gay marriage amendment in Ohio, or demonstrated against homosexuality at funerals of heroes.

GT Surber
Norfolk, NE (WMUM, 89.7 FM)

Only a First Step Out of the Gated Community (December 9, 2007)
This is the first program of yours that I have turned off in the middle. It was at the point where Mr. Warren said that the way to solve problems was to work through Christian churches, because there were churches everywhere. He kept saying, church, church, church. This was the same man who at the beginning spoke about reaching out to people who "weren't anti-God. They just didn't like church." If he's going to do everything through "churches," where does that leave the people of faith who aren't Christian, or can't stomach the churches they see, or who are cast out by their churches? (Let's not even think about people of good will who don't have any faith that he would call "religious" at all.)

Ms. Warren says she didn't know a single orphan. But I'm sure she did, she just didn't realize they were orphans, just as I'm sure that she knows gays and lesbians without realizing that they are gays or lesbians. She may even know some people with AIDS without realizing it — I'm sure she knows people with family members with AIDS. Our wealth and our social structures allow us to be unaware of the people who "aren't like us," if we want to be. And a lot of people, especially Christians, and especially Evangelicals, want very much to remain unaware and are willing to use their power as the majority to protect their privilege to be unaware.

I'm glad that the Warrens have been led to become aware of what is happening outside Orange County. That's a good first step. But I did not get the feeling that they have been led to try to understand people who are different from themselves. They continue to see everyone as slight variations on their Orange County church members, and their solutions are made to fit the people they know. It's as if a cobbler would sell everybody shoes in the same size, and never understood why some customers were happy with his shoes and others cursed at him.

Alan McKenney
Tarrytown, NY (WNYC, 93.9 FM)

A Paid Advertisement? (December 9, 2007)
You are interviewing two of the latest leaders of the "Church of What's Happening Now". Reverse tithing"? Megachurch? Jesus and God talk to them? 20,000 members and 500,000 pastors? Church is bigger than China? Please, ask them what kind of autos they drive, where they live, how much money they have in the bank, how much time they spent in the last 36 months in Africa, what they have personally done — not money — to improve life in Africa.

You've had some interesting interviewees, but this couple reminds me a lot of Jim and Tammy Bakker. The Warrens are running the interview. It sounds like a junk advertisement. What and where is your research on this couple? Thank you for visiting them in their "private office" at their "church".

Don Ladig
Chesterfield, MO (KWMU, 90.7 FM)

Diversify Your Religious Perspective (December 9, 2007)
I am a periodic VPR listener, a donor, a Jewish woman who only can carve out two mornings a week to listen to VPR/NPR, Tuesday and Sunday. I end up listening to your program almost every Sunday morning. I was initially hopeful that on a Sunday morning in the U.S. (where Jews have become used to yet another proof that ours is a "Christian country," the saturation of the media with Christian worship programs) that your program might actually represent a wider perspective. You certainly tackle interesting, non-traditional issues about faith. What I have begun to assume, after many Sundays is that the only faith you explore is Christianity.

I have listened for weeks on the new wave of Evangelical worship that is innovative and prioritizing justice. It has been fascinating, yet I find myself asking,"Have you guys ever heard about Rabbi Michael Lerner? His Network of Spiritual Progressives? Editor of Tikkun magazine?" I would love to hear a morning devoted to the new wave of Jewish leaders challenging the right wing. I would love to hear more discussions from a non-Christian perspective: Muslim, Jewish, Quaker, etc. The speakers will sometimes refer to other traditions (though today's speaker, a California minister and his wife doing amazing AIDS work around the world) seemed to lump all the "faithful" as Christian worshipers. It gets me. He even attributed the Hillel's famous teaching "Love your neighbor as yourself" to Jesus. Jesus would have remembered to credit Hillel. I appreciate and depend on your devotion to quality, non-biased programming and the ability to give this feedback. Please feel free to let me know if my assumption is simply due to my limited listening time.

Andrea Waisman
Brattleboro, VT (WVPS, 107.9 FM)

No Place in Public Radio (December 9, 2007)
I am scared to death of people like the Warrens and strongly object to my beloved NPR station even carrying a program such as yours. Religion should have no place in public life, and Christian fundamentalists should be barred from public office in my opinion. Their odious agenda is to convert us all and to establish a Christian theocracy in the United States. They allow no room for dissent. Christian megachurches are more dangerous than Islamic terrorists because they are already here.

Peter Davis
Ann Arbor, MI (WUOM, 91.7 FM)

Bogosity (December 9, 2007)
The guy says he talks to George Bush but doesn't take the man's policies into account? So he walks in like he's a complete stranger? Actions say more about a person than their words, and this so-called holy man doesn't consider them? God help us, we must get you people out of the mainstream. You're killing our goodness, our humanity, our integrity with your continual hypocrisy. I want my America back! This country was great — you've made it sick and weak and stupid with your ethereal beliefs. Look inside yourselves. Look outside yourselves. Stop being such stupid sheep for inhumane corporations and the greedy civil and religious politicians that want to manipulate your money and your vote. Jesus would want you to wake up. He was a great guy. These folks are not. Get a clue.

Linda Wilson
Vancouver, WA (KOPB, 91.5 FM)

Warming! (December 7, 2007)
I was baptized at Saddleback in 2002 and left the church after moving cities. I've also heard the criticisms regarding Rick "watering down" gospel and making the mission more about him than about Christ. However, i think, for me, (at least in this small interview) these critics are silenced. Via this interview, it was apparent to me that Warren is going back to the Bible and prayer for much of the wisdom he needed dealing with stuff much bigger than himself (Psalm 72, reverse tithing). I was also happy to read that he is really focusing on remembering who he is and who God is — with his file recalling the pastors who stumbled (comment made "putting the fear of God in himself")

Plus, it's just darn refreshing to hear the simple language he uses, especially in a day that we are cluttered with too much information. I know sometimes they sound corny — makes me chuckle quite a bit, but they definitely stick in your head. (i.e. thanks for the "service" to "serve us"!) Rick and Kay seem to be guided by the Holy Spirit and circumstances and what many people forget or don't understand is that these leaders get attacked by Satan much more than any of us because of their position of influence. Temptation for you and I may be one thing but for a leader who has the ability to swing many hearts one direction or another. The war is much greater and much more deceptive. That is, if you believe that there are wars of good and evil going on over your heart. I would just continue to hope/pray that Rick/Kay stay entrenched in God's wisdom and guidance — no matter the cost.

Curt Weigel
Irvine, CA (KPCC, 89.3 FM)

Christian Social Action (December 6, 2007)
I listened with interest to the argument that "the church" has more people with which to take social action, speaking more languages, etc. than any government for taking action to solve problems. It is a strong management rationale for having the church be the instrument for solving social problems and I have no problem with churches doing that.

What I don't understand is why they need tax dollars taken from non-believers as well as believers to do it. If the church has the enthusiasm, the moral authority, and the people to do the job, it is also true that they have access to the money through the donations of their members. Donations that are tax deductible so the money goes directly to the cause they want to support instead of through a government bureaucracy.

When they choose to do it with tax dollars instead of direct donations from those who believe in what they are doing, it makes me wonder how sincere they really are. When I believe in something, I put my money where my mouth is. I don't expect others to fund my belief system even when the action I take supports the good of others. My faith requires the commitment of my money as well as my words and actions.

James Bullard
West Stockholm, NY (WSLU, 89.5 FM)

God (December 6, 2007)
I'm searching for reconciliation of God's omnipotence and His behavior as the God of the Bible. I have asked clergy of all kinds for a resolution to my dilemma. They seem to stumble and not have an answer. I hope you will help me or refer me to someone who can.

My dilemma: It is given that God is omnipotent. If this is so, God is also omniscient. This means that God knows all that was, is and, most importantly, God knows all that will be.

As an example of God’s omnipotence, somebody wrote in the Bible that God created heaven and earth (the universe was not yet known) God also created man and woman and put them in the wonderful garden of Eden where they would have everything to their heart’s content with the single proviso that they not partake fruit from the tree of life and death which was placed in the middle of the garden so that it would be visible and its fruit available at all times. A divine enticement as it were. Even if this were a metaphor, its substance and meaning is very clear. Being omniscient, God knew the instant "He thought" of this scenario. He also knew that Adam and Eve would disobey Him and eat the fruit and be immediately cast out of the Garden and condemned themselves and all mankind in perpetuity to labor mightily in this life as well as being threatened with eternal torture in the next. This is hardly an example of God’s infinite love or any kind of love. In human terms He would be considered worthy of imprisonment and isolation without bail for life. He would be considered a most despicable being, and this is just the beginning of the first chapters of the Bible.

God also knew that Adam and Eve would produce Cane and Able and that Cane would slay Able. Why would God be looking for Able and asking Cane where Able might be when He knew all of these activities eons before Cane, Able, Adam and Eve even existed. He knows that He will destroy the world with a flood because as he also knows it would become a horrible place. He knows that He will destroy Simon and Gomorrah, that He will argue with Satan as to Job’s loyalty and subject Job to unbelievable tortures when, all the time, He knows the entire scenario from beginning to end ahead of time as well as its result. It goes on and on. If this were all true, would this not be a frightening example of divine mental masturbation? The Bible stands as a childish blasphemy on the Creator. As written, the God of the Bible is actually an imaginary superman, not an omnipotent God of infinite love. The book is full of wisdom as are many, many books but it is certainly not the word of God. Rather, it is a horrible blasphemy on God.

Reading the Bible knowing that God is omniscient, ruins the whole story. Where have I gone wrong in my thinking?

Antonio Granados
Levittown, PA (Listens to SOF Podcast)